Brittanys or English Springer Spaniels - Chicago Illinois Fishing Forum, Information & Reports
» CLF Sponsors
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-06-2008, 11:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 32
Default Brittanys or English Springer Spaniels

I plan to get a new bird dog pup in June or July. I'm thinking a Brittany or English Springer Spaniel. Anyone have info to share about them. I had a GSP, but I am moving and he is staying with my parents. ('') Any good breeders to point me to or tips would be great.
Are_We_Havin_Fun_Yet is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-06-2008, 10:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 17
Default

Depends if you want a flusher or a pointer as both dogs will do a fine job. I pick up my new brittany pup Memorial Day weekend. Here is the site as where it is form I think there is one pup left. But he does have started 8mo old pups. http://dogwoodbrittanys.com Look under puppies to see pictures.
Will H is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-07-2008, 10:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 190
Default

Like Will said, it depends on what you are looking for...

I have a brittany, but I have hunted a lot over a friend's springer. You may already know this, but springers come in two flavors: field and show. The most noticable physical difference is that the field bred have shorter ears. I think they are prettier than the show-bred. Obviously, a breeder with a field bred line is going to breed to keep prey drive intact.

In my opinion, training a springer is going to be easier than a brittany. Either breed (from good stock) is not going to be all that hard to train, but there is more fiddley nuanced technical stuff with a pointing breed. There are more gotchas with a pointing breed where you are going to have to ask for help from a pro. In contrast, with a springer, you toss a few wing clipped quail, then liberate a few quail, teach the dog to return when called, and maybe teach him to sit on command... that is the bare minimum you need for a meat dog. I know next to nothing about field trialing, so I cannot help you.

I prefer the pointing breeds because I am a bad shot. Being surprized by a flush (as often happens to me when hunting over a springer), I tend to miss a lot. I like knowing there is a bird up there. But your mileage may vary.

Rick
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-08-2008, 12:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB
Like Will said, it depends on what you are looking for...

In my opinion, training a springer is going to be easier than a brittany. Either breed (from good stock) is not going to be all that hard to train, but there is more fiddley nuanced technical stuff with a pointing breed. There are more gotchas with a pointing breed where you are going to have to ask for help from a pro. In contrast, with a springer, you toss a few wing clipped quail, then liberate a few quail, teach the dog to return when called, and maybe teach him to sit on command... that is the bare minimum you need for a meat dog.
Rick
Well said Rick. In your experience, have you seen flushers that range too far? Do they naturally hunt close? The only problem I've wondered about with training/hunting flushers is them bumping birds out of range.
Rookie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-08-2008, 01:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 190
Default

Keeping a flushing dog close needs to be part of the training. My friend (with the springer) basically calls the dog back in when she gets too far out. You do enough of that hacking back in and the dog learns gun range. It can be a train as you hunt deal. Some will hup (sit) their dogs while the foot hunter catches up.

In contrast, the thing that can unglue many a dog (both pointer and flusher) is the running pheasant. I got invited to hunt over a poorly trained lab once. I saw that dog chase a running pheasant across a field and flush the bird 200 yds away once the bird ran out of cover. I understand that there are two schools of thought regarding the flushing dog chasing a pheasant: Option one is you can run after your dog and try to shoot when it flushes. Option 2 is to hup your dog to keep it in gun range, since you will be out of breath and not be able to make the shot if you had chosen option 1.

Pointing breeds, on the other hand, are often taught to stop at first scent, thereby eliminating the chasing of a running rooster. But this gets harder for the dog when the dog can see the running bird such as in a corn field. Apparently some meat dogs catch on to this and will cut off a running bird, but you cannot teach this, they pick it up themselves.

Finally, I have heard that the stopping at first scent is not ideal for pheasants. The theory goes that when the dog stops on first scent, that is very little pressure on the bird, who then feels comfortable running away. Better is a dog that stops at "good scent" or "strong scent". This increases the pressure, causing the bird to feel less comfortable running; afraid it might be seen.

As to the above paragraph... I have not clue who is right. I just do not have the experience and will leave that decision to the pros and experts. I do not know how you would train differently for "first scent" vs "strong scent" anyway. Maybe you need a dog with a less good nose I have no clue.


Regards

Rick
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-10-2008, 09:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mundelein, Il.
Posts: 3,038
Default

I don't have experience with the breed you are after, but I am surprised Denny hasn't jumped in here? He must be busy trialing his Brittneys?

He might also be able to point (no pun ) you to a good breeder.

I will comment on the pointer senting issue, as I run GSP, but much of the scenting, stopping, and pointing comes naturally, and is not actually taught.

Much of what a pointer does once he goes on point, is what is taught.
A good pointer, or at least the way I trained mine is to stay with a running bird, only on command, and to do it with a calm pace, and always "Whoa" (stop) on command. Drooling on a bird rather than grabbing it is always a plus!

Hopefully Denny will jump in here and offer some advise, as I know he is as well versed with Brits, as anyone I know.

Regardless, best of luck in finding and training your new gun dog!
__________________
C J "The Mona Gale" [email protected]
Captain Jim is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-13-2008, 02:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 32
Default

thanks for the great info everyone. now I only need to find a good breeder.
Are_We_Havin_Fun_Yet is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-25-2008, 08:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
FishArt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Apple River
Posts: 4,343
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB
I understand that there are two schools of thought regarding the flushing dog chasing a pheasant: Option one is you can run after your dog and try to shoot when it flushes. Option 2 is to hup your dog to keep it in gun range, since you will be out of breath and not be able to make the shot if you had chosen option 1.

Rick
Actually Rick, there is only one option here and that is option number 2. And in reality, IF the dog has been properly trained this should only happen in training conditions - NOT on opening day with 4 other hunters - lol! Option 1 actually is a major "no-no". What you're inevitably doing is telling your flusher that it's okay to run birds out of range because you just rewarded your dog via running after him and shooting the bird (bird/retrieve = reward). And, it's also dangerous running on uneven terrain with a loaded shotgun.

A lot depends on what you're hunting & how much time you have to train your dog. Pointers are going to take longer, but the reward and "coolness" of hunting behind a well-trained pointer is something to be admired. As Jim mentioned, BOTH pointers and flushers will run birds out of range if not trained properly. I also think you need to ask yourself (if considering a pointer) who will I be hunting with an what types of breeds of dogs will my friends have? I hunt mostly wild, Iowa pheasants and with a bunch of guys. We have a mixture of pointers and flushers. But, it's pretty much a given rule that ALL dogs stay within gun range at all times. Usually we'll break off and split up if some of the pointer guys want to let their dogs run loose more. In big groups the pointers that get out too far tend to get all the birds as they get to them first. And they also tend to bump more birds because of them being out too far. The bigger groups/more noise tends to make the birds more skittish. Granted, most of these "track star" roosters aren't going to hang around for the flushers either, but once a bird flushes it tends to make the other (holders) nervous and they flush too (out of range). So, IMO you're going to want to keep that pointer in close - especially on wild pheasants. Pen-raised birds on the otherhand tend to hold much tighter. You can get away with a lot more with pen raised birds...

Now, I'm a Lab man. But years ago I came darn close to buying a Springer instead because IMO they are the ultimate pheasant dog. Think I'm kidding? Go down to DesPlaines and walk behind a Springer Field Trial and you will be totally in AWE at what pheasant hunting MACHINES these dogs are! Long hair was the main reason I steered towards a Lab instead.
__________________
Marty Shimkus
Fish Specialties Taxidermy
Apple River, Illinois
815-744-1380
Mount Album: https://www.chicagolandfishing.com/fo...y-fishart.html
>>Check out our new website!!!!<<
http://WWW.FishSpecialties.NET
FishArt is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2008, 08:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rivergrove Il
Posts: 41
Default Bird dog

I would say go with a GSP i have 2 and they are awesome. Thats my 2 cents
__________________
It is what it is, I am what i am ...
Willey is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2008, 12:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fox River Grove
Posts: 403
Default

A good choice between two good breeds of hunting dogs. Your correct Jim I have been busy on the side. The FT season is actually over and giving the dogs a bit of R & R before starting training again in July.
The two are very contrasting in style the Springer being a flushing dog and the Brit not a spaniel techinally but a pointing dog like and english setter or GSP. You have to decise what is important to you. Are you just lookin gfor a dog to go out and shoot some birds? Or are you looking looking to progress your skills and get into the dog work. Myself personally I don't even load my gun when hunting until it's time. The dogs don't get rewarded with a bird in their mouth unless they have performed correctly. That's the satisfaction I get. Do you want a dog to hunt just within gun range ? Or range out the way a pointing dog should. Will a young, inexperienced dog bump a bird? Yes. So they have to be taught to handle those situations. Are my brits taught to point when first hitting scent? Yes to a degree. Real vague answer huh? The more experienced they get the better they become. They know when to put on the breaks and when to move up without pushing the bird up. (Called relocating)Bottom line is you get out of any dog wht you put into them. There not finished and polished coming out of the box. Heck a dog in the field trial work does not come into it's own and get to it's full potential until they are 4 - 7 years of age. Just a fact. Pushing dogs like brits to become 90 day wonders doesn't happen. They develop slowly and don't take pressure well eraly on in life and you develop different problems in forcing a brit to dog certain functions to early in life. And I mean before 1 1/2 - 2 years. Another fact. I know a lot of good breeders in the brittany work and could give you some reccomendations. Dogwood Kennel's (Todd Parmenter ) is a good person very trusworthy. Heck he's a minister how could you not trust him. Decide what's important and what roie you want this dog to play/ What are you looking for in expectations. It might define what breed to look for.
I have some friends in the field springer work as well. They are a seperate breed in themselves. Smaller than the common variety you see everyday. With a tail (yes) A lot of fun to watch as well. Good luck. If you are looking for any directions to look in the brittany world I can direct you.
Denny
Denny is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Chicago Illinois Fishing Forum, Information & Reports forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Press 1 for english??? Sawboy Sound Off/ Non-Outdoor Discussion 3 07-11-2007 12:00 AM
Why its important to understand English Always Out Sound Off/ Non-Outdoor Discussion 2 12-14-2006 11:41 PM
English is Easy? Ed Sound Off/ Non-Outdoor Discussion 6 02-09-2005 08:21 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:54 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.