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Old 10-19-2008, 09:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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The "Assualt Weapon Ban" is an absolute joke. Whether it gets renewed or not, really wont impact us as hunters or outdoorsmen. Its just a buzzword that politicians use because it simply SOUNDS dangerous!

An "Assualt Rifle" is a semi automatic rifle with 2 or more of the following :

Folding Stock
Flash suppressor
Pistol Grip
Bayonet Attachment
Grenade Launcher Attachment (already illegal by its own ban)

Im not sure what the statistics are on crimes committed with a Bayonet Attachment.... or what relevance a flash suppressor has in the streets today, but this ban has little impact on actual crime, and even less on us hunters.

It was the ORIGINAL proposal for the Assualt Weapon Ban that the NRA opposed, since it would ban nearly all centerfire rifle rounds. (But of course it was spun to read, NRA supports assault weapons). The NRA was actually responsible for much of the reconstruction in the new proposal that was eventually passed.

Just like "cop killer bullets". (Outside of Lethal Weapon 3... NO law enforcement officer has ever been reported being killed by such a bullet). But again, it sounds dangerous, so when you propose a ban on it, sheeple... i mean people eagerly support you.

Back in College, I did a number of papers / speeches that were Pro - Gun, Pro- Huting etc. Couldnt help myself!
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Old 10-19-2008, 09:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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There is a HUGE difference between banning guns and getting mine from me
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Old 10-19-2008, 11:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
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WOW! Surprised to see some of the really naive posts here...
First, lets differentiate between hunting "rights" and gun rights.
The former is very easy to explain, there is no such thing as hunting "rights" Hunting is a priveledge not a right, at least as far as man and governement is concerned. Some believe it is a God given right, but that is a whole different topic.

As for gun rights, our constitution has given us the right to keep and own guns for our protection, both against others and against the very government that supposedly is in charge of maintaining our rights, all of them from free speech to protection against unreasonable search & seizure. That broad protection is why the right of gun ownership is really so important, but obviously there are ancillary benefits as well such as being able to protect our property and family. My favorite Thomas Paine quote is that
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
As far as Dem Vs. Rep. on the protection of gun rights, there are both sucess and failures in both parties, but the GENERAL performance of each party is that historically the Republican party has been better to protect the 2nd Amendment thant the Democrats. As forementioned, there are exceptions to every rule. Ironically, although the Chicago contingent of Democrats are the ones who repeatedly attack our 2nd Amendment right, the downstate Dems are the ones who typically prevent extreme measures from being passed. Coming from rural communities where hunting is part of the culture, they often pair with collar county Republicans to defeat extreme measures proposed out of the city. Make no mistake, some of those measures proposed have been extreme.

On a national level, pretty much the same is true. Illinois is a microcosm of the nation when it comes to gun control. The vast majority of rural states tend to keep the extreme measures proposed from the urban lawmakers (chicago, DC, LA, NYC) that do nothing to reduce their crime but saddle law abiding citizens with unreasonable restraints.

Several have mentioned that the assault weapons ban doesn't affect us as hunters, but the reality is that it acually does. If you do your research, you will know that the bill that was actually passed during the Clinton administration was VERY watered down from it's original language. Originally the language included virtuall ALL semit automatic long guns and would have included comon hunting rifles like the Remignton 742 (the rifle MY dad hunts with) because it was semi-auto and has a detachable box magazine. There was also language to ban anything over .50 cal, and as worded, would have banned muzzleloaders of .50 & .54 cal.

The point is that even when you THINK these bans do not affect you, you are still giving away your rights. Now they may not be a right that you actually take advantage of, but it is still your right. For example, I don't really shoot handguns 9own a few but they sit mostly). Would a total ban on handguns affect me really? No, not in the simplest of terms. I hunt with long guns and my home protection is shotguns but the reality is that others do need and use handguns and when I sit idle as THEIR rights are infringed, then what will happen when MY rights are the next target? You can fool yourself to thinking that, they will never target simple hunting guns, but again, so your research. It has happend in other countries and has been proposed here many times. Only by sticking together and insisting that in no way will ANY of our rights be taken from us, will our rights be protected.

Two of the most misguided things I hear are "It doesn't affect me" and "They'll take my guns when they pry my cold dead fingers from my gun". Well in short, it DOES affect you, don't wait until after the fact to realize it. As for the latter, great story but in that one, you're DEAD! Don't let it get that far, choose wisely when voting now, while we're all alive and still have our rights.
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Old 10-19-2008, 11:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JP
There is a HUGE difference between banning guns and getting mine from me
That statement would be true for many of us JP however, lots of people said that in Morton Grove, Chicago and other cities. Bans are in effect and people have to hide their guns. The Anti Gunners are in it for the long run and have been effective in these areas in turning gun owners into criminals. Yes, people still have guns in Chicago but they are hidden from site, people are unable to use them as our Constitution allows. If your caught with one, you'll pay the price and more than likely loose your right to own guns due to the conviction.

You could walk down one of these streets smoking a joint and not be bothered but try walking down the street with a gun and see what happens. It's been proven many times that gun restrictions do not have an effect on crime but they are still pushing for them and will never stop. As far as the Democratic party being for or against gun rights?? Who runs Chicago and Cook County??

No, they will never walk door to door trying to take guns away but they don't have to. They have already succeeded in forcing law abiding citizens into a decision. Do I get rid my gun or do I become a criminal by default. In these areas, these once law abiding citizens now have to hide their guns, restrict their use in fear of being arrested. Normal citizens in these areas are fearful of even discussing their guns with anyone due to the possibility of friends, neighbors or even family reporting their guns to authorities. God forbid the legal nightmare one would go through if they had to use one for any reason. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

The Anti gunner's are smarter than you think, they have been effective in making the gun a bad thing. They have succeeded in restricting their use and transport by law abiding citizens while having no effect on crime. Years ago, my Dad and I would go into the field behind our house and target practice with our .22 rifle. Try that nowadays anywhere around here and more than likely you would have the police there in no time with somebody reporting gun fire.

More and more people fear guns nowadays rather than understanding their purpose. I can only see it getting worse in the future. **** you can't even smoke in public anymore let alone possess a firearm. It's sad.
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Old 10-19-2008, 02:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tubes77
There was also language to ban anything over .50 cal, and as worded, would have banned muzzleloaders of .50 & .54 cal.
Tubes, did you forget that the original language also encompassed any shotgun bigger than a .410??? Where would it stop???

""Sniper rifle," like "assault weapon," is an utterly elastic, all-encompassing term. The word these gun-banners are really focusing on is "rifle." The gun control dragon always has a need for steel and wood, but it has an even more voracious appetite for Freedom. This time, it culminates with what the gun control crowd always promised it would never go after--hunting rifles. The only difference between those .50-caliber targets of opportunity and any other rifle in private hands is a matter of a mere fraction of a millimeter or a fraction of an inch in the bore. If such a restriction becomes law, that will be the beginning of gun ownership "reduction" based on bore size.

If you think this is a stretch, remember England's handgun ban. In the beginning, when licensed gun owners fought to stop confiscation of their registered handguns, the government threw them a bone--it only banned guns of a bore size larger than .22. Honest British licensed gun owners turned in their "large bore" handguns for destruction. They were told they could keep their .22s in government-approved lockups at government-certified gun clubs.

Yet, that "bore reduction" gun control had barely been in place when British handgun owners were told the government was going to collect their registered private property from the approved armory sites--.22s suddenly had become "too big." The rest, as they say, is history.

That's "firearms reduction" by caliber. That's history. That's reality. That's where all this is headed--under the smokescreen of protecting Americans from terrorists with big-bore rifles."
49 other states canít be wrong!

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Old 10-19-2008, 04:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Shabby
Originally Posted by TheBigFish1
Posted: 08:23pm - Jul 17,08 Post subject: New to hunting

I have been an outdoorsman and fisherman my whole life. I would like to take up hunting. I am thinking more along the lines of upland game, such as rabbits.

After the FOID card, where do I start? Hunter safety course? Do you bring your own rifle to these?

Where do you hunt? Are there many public hunting venues?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
A babe in the woods? It's people like you that keep people like me renewing our NRA memberships.
Apparently, even if I was new to hunting, I must not want to outlaw guns, rifles, etc. The problem in these debates is people like you who are on the far extremes of the gun owner/right wing fringe. But that's ok, there is still a place in this country for you.
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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..... and Shabby should be proud of it !!!! If it wasn't for those who fight tooth and nail against all the silly laws, we would have lost our gun rights already.

That's the difference between right wing and left wing.

If a right winger is asked if guns should be banned, if our freedoms should be chipped away, their answer would be "NO"

Left wingers would answer the same question "NO, .... BUT !!!" ... blah blah blah. There always seems to be a "BUT" after their answer.

Standing firm is the only way to keep our rights.
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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copied & pasted from Feb. 07

For those that are ignorant about the subject, those EVIL, looking rifles that look like "Military Assault Rifles."
This is a great short clip to FULLY EXPLAIN to those that, mis-name, mis-label, & who are caught up with the Gun Grabbers, News Media, Politicians, on just how they are trying to poison everyone into infringing on the rights of LAWABIDING CITIZENS

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I don't think he was being extreme, I think what he was saying the reason why he pays his dues so new people are brought into the sport. The NRA is the sportsmans biggest and best friend.

The thing that bothers me is how easily people are willing to give up rights. They dont care about protecting their rights that they may not be interested in or use so they don't care if they are taken away.

I do not understand it at all

With every right that is taken away you become less free. My wife does not like guns. She chooses not to own one or to be involved in any shooting sport. I own several of them. She does however understand why the people of this country have the right to own them. While she choses not to own one herself she realizes that her decision does not have to be your decision.

Everyone should believe in Something, I believe I will go fishing - Henry David Thoreau

If you are a conservative at 20 you have no heart, If you are a liberal at 40 you have no brains - Winston Churchill.
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Tubes wrote...
"...As for gun rights, our constitution has given us the right to keep and own guns for our protection... "

Actually the Constitution does not give us any rights. The Constitution spells out what things the government can do. The first 10 amendments( the Bill of Rights) limits the power of the federal government and protects the natural or inalienable rights that the people already possess.

This is an important concept in the argument for striking down the DC gun ban. The Feds did not grant the right of having a firearm for self defense. Therefore they cannot take away this right of the people.
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