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Old 10-20-2008, 11:51 AM   #31 (permalink)
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BigFish, this is directly from your link you posted

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Regarding a Constitutional right to guns, Obama says:

Obama, "Sportsmen": Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns.

On the issue of urban policy, Obama says he favors "commonsense measures" to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and children, and that he would bring back the expired "assault weapon" ban and make it permanent:

Obama, "Urban Policy": Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
I don't think you have to be a scholar to read what that says. In the former part, is says "He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns"

Again he is using the hunter as a crutch, but then he says "other Americans". Why didn't he say ALL Americans? By "other Americans" he may be referring to the military, they are certainly Americans or the police, they are certainly Americans, but he doesn't say ALL Americans, and that is what the 2nd Amendment is there to protect- ALL Americans!

He then gives us an insight with the latter statement
Quote:
"Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets"
What do they percieve as "common sense"? Right now the laws already restrict the age at which you can buy or have a gun, where you can carry your gun, and MOST importantly, what you can do with your gun. All those laws are already in place, yet the "Urban areas" that he refers to continue to have high violent crime rates yet rural communites where guns are commonplace, virtually have none. Why is that? That could cover volumes upon volumes, but the short answer is that there are much greater underlying issues that cause people to turn to gun violence. The core issue being poverty and the lack of opportunity due to poor education, social prejudices and the many mitigating factors. This culture of hopelessness has been cemented gy the gang and drug culture. Changing this violent cycle is not going to happen with additional gun laws, but no politician (either side) ever wants to address the core issues of WHY people want to turn to violence.


One last thing I'll mention is that they support making guns "childproof". That's a great way to say "inoperable when you need it" There is large support to make tirgger locks mandatory and a crime to have off of you firearm. Basically this would make home defense impossible. Do you think that in the middle of the night when the back door crashes open you're going to be able to ask the intruder to wait a minute while you get the trigger lock off?

I read the NRA statements and quite frankly, they are right on the money. The difference is that you believe what Obama says on it's face but they look beyond the mere words to their real intent. Yet even if you only take into consideration that actual words he says, you have to wonder what his intentions are with statements like

Quote:
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
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Old 10-20-2008, 01:09 PM   #32 (permalink)
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He won't respond

If he does, he won't answer a direct question asked of him. He'll answer with some other question or statement. Skirting the answer sorta speak like most liberals do.
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Old 10-20-2008, 01:12 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Guns have plenty of regulation at the present time. Like stated the only reason that politicians on either side talk about them is ONLY to get a vote. One day they could be proguns the next day they could be against gun ownership.

The key issue that I have NEVER heard addressed is education of those that are ignorant to the proper uses of guns. True when the constitution was written guns had a different purpose. That leads me to ask myself, "Where, When and How did that purpose change?"

It began with the migration to urban areas, when individuals moved from rural settings to cities as there was the change from 95% rural to 95% urban population in this country. Along with that move came less education on the proper use for firearms and also a larger concentration of those uneducated about the proper use of firearms.

The KEY is not more regulation, it is education on the proper uses of firearms.
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:41 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I went an voted today, I will Grouse hunting In WI on election Day. I hope everybody Votes

Voting = Lets them know we are watching them, Trust me politicians love low voter turn out.

Reech
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:33 PM   #35 (permalink)
 
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Obama, "Sportsmen": Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns.

I don't think you have to be a scholar to read what that says. In the former part, is says "He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns"

Again he is using the hunter as a crutch, but then he says "other Americans". Why didn't he say ALL Americans? By "other Americans" he may be referring to the military, they are certainly Americans or the police, they are certainly Americans, but he doesn't say ALL Americans, and that is what the 2nd Amendment is there to protect- ALL Americans!


You took something out of context right of the bat. He states, "other law abiding Americans" not "other Americans." What he means by law abiding Americans are the ones who don't have felonies, have FOID cards, etc..Now, what problem do you have with that?

As is the real issue in urban areas are criminals who use guns that are illegal. You generally don't hear of individuals who legaling own guns commiting these crimes. So, he means common sense laws to try and keep guns out of the hands of these individuals.

One other thing to other posters on this subject. I don't mind being called a liberal. I am proud of it. I think I may have also been called whiny too. That's not a problem either. Let's see who is whiny on November 5th.

One other thing, someone said the Dems have been in control of congress for 4 years. Actually, it is 2 years, with very slim majorities. It is hard to get laws and such passed when they get vetoed by the president. However, that won't be a problem in January 2009.

As Colin Powell stated, "the Repbulican party is becoming very narrow." So , narrow a great majority of Americans are about to reject it. Elections have consequences.
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:53 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Ok guys, now things are just getting too political.
I realize the passions are strong and rightfully so, whichever side you may be on.
As has been said before though, it never ends on a good note.
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