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(Reuters) Wal-Mart Stores Inc, the world's largest retailer, unveiled plans on Monday to film its gun sales in the United States and create a computerized log of purchases in a bid to stop guns falling into the wrong hands.

Wal-Mart, which is the largest seller of firearms in the United States, agreed a 10-point code, which also includes rigid inventory controls, with a bipartisan coalition of Mayors Against Illegal Guns led by New York's Michael Bloomberg.

The retailer said it will develop a first-of-its-kind computerized crime gun trace log that will flag purchases by customers who have previously bought guns later recovered in crimes.
:roll:
FWIW, Yes they are free to film whatever they want. It's their store.
And trace/track any sale with face recognition by video tracking software.
How far is too far? What's next?
They already got caught tracking Gillette items, by an imbedded RFID chip. It turns out they were attemping to know when you put somthing in your cart, and where else you went in the store, and what you bought.

I'm finding it easier and easier to just shop elsewhere.
 

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So much for selling my guns to the Latin Kings :roll:

Seriously... Why would this bother anyone who locks up their guns and... if lost or stolen... reports it to the police?

I'm all for gun rights, but it's protesting laws like this one that DON'T target responsible gun owners I just don't quite understand (and the leading reason I haven't joined the NRA). The second amendment gives you the right to bear arms. It doesn't say anything about filing the serial numbers off and selling them to others.

As far as the gillette thing... That isn't personal information, its a marketing tool--mostly for product placement in the aisles. Grocery and retail spend millions placing products in certain aisles and eye levels. It also isn't just Walmart... What do you think your Dominicks or Jewel card is? They have more information on you than Walmart. Notice what coupons you get printed on the back of your receipt and in the mail. They want to know what you buy and sell you more and newer brands of it. If you only knew how many Miller Lite coupons I used to get...
 

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/iagree Right on usair. I own guns and I don't care who knows that. In fact, it is a good thing some people in my hood know I own, can and will use if need be.
 

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How about some privacy? How about the government not having a list of what I own? How about not having some huge store keeping information on me and my purchases and giving it to the government for tracking purposes. (I know they already do track through some means.) I kind of like not being a sheep and being able to do what I like with my own possessions.

There is a bill up right now that will probably go to the State floor tomorrow that will ban the sale of ALL semi auto rifles shotguns and pistols. If you own one now you can keep it but you have to register it. It will also become illegal to sell any of your pieces. What ever gun you own now will be it until you move out of Illinois. If it passes...
 

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Why not???

This is something being done that is proactive. THis in no way affects any law abiding citizen unless you choose to give the gun to your friend thats a felon. In that case they should stop selling you weapons.

This is not a new law, it is just one other way to show ownership of the weapon.

If a crime is commited with a weapon, then the police will come back to the store that the serial number is registered with. (If it's still there)
In this case WalMart. Walmart keeps all personal info about you when they sell a gun.

The only thing the state police get is serial number and where it was sold. It is the responsibility of the gun dealer to keep the info in case of a crime.

So what if they want to put a face to it. It'd be much easier to post it on the news to find a guy for questioning if they can't find him.

As for the marketing techniques, if you owned a store wouldn't you want to find ways to increase your profits? It's not like it's recording your conversations or keeping tabs on you at home.

This is just my opinion as a law abiding citizen that owns guns and will try to always find ways to make an extra buck. :)

By the way I am a proud IBEW L.U. 176 member and do not patronize Walmart. BUT I do not see anything wrong with their techniques about this topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Intresting..It's not the Feds folks, not even the Il. State Police, but WalMart?
So far almost nobody has a problem with WalMart compiling THIER OWN video database? Is face recognition software in the plans?
Relax you say, they are doing it in the name of gun control, it's all good, nothing to see here, just move along folks, and say cheese!
Oh yea, they promise to keep this informaton all to themselves and the police?
Sure. Right. I'm sure Gillete had nothing to gain in the RFID incedent either?
If any government agency proposed something like this for any other purpose it would never fly, but a private company for "gun control"is fine?
It's none of thier business! At the point of purchase I have done nothing wrong, and broken no laws. Background checks, and ID checks with the feds, I'm ok with that. But this is going way too far over the line for me.
It makes me wonder what pressure was placed on them to implement this. What were they given? Liability absolution maybe? I don't believe they are one of the larger gun dealers in most locations. Most stores don't even sell guns. In St Charles they don't even sell darts because they are dangerous?!?!?
Or, could it be that once we all become accustomed to WalMart doing it, then it will be no big deal to have everybody doing it.

It seems to me, somewhere back in time, the role of law enforcement changed from a protection force, reactive to the needs of the people, to an enforcement agency, proactively responding to the loudest voices. Voices demanding action. Demanding results. We need quantifiable results.
Subtle wordplay maybe, but very different in their approach, and all the more reason to use a very jaundiced eye in monitoring the powers we, as a people give up freely.Twenty odd years ago roadblocks for DUI checks were unheard of, now we see them posted in the newspaper flaunting all of the voilations they've cited.
Little steps..little steps..but ask yourself, where do we go from here?

Now, before you jump on me for this, I'm not some anarchist looney, screaming about gun grabbers and how it's my right to own an AK.
I'm just a guy who regrets some of the technology being used in the name of my protection.
I can choose not to use a Jewel Shoppers card, but I can also choose to not be under surveilance as well. I have nothing to hide, and, until there is reasonable suspicion that I do, you have no reason to look either.
 

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In response to the last 2 posts on this thread I can see both points.
On one hand, yes, if I'm law abiding, I have nothing to worry about.
On the other hand, having all kinds of information about you out there could lead to other problems.

Just like the IPASS
If the powers that be wanted to know what area I was in for some particular time frame it could help them, if I was using the tollway system.

Now let's say I know someone that was murdered, and I just happened to be going down the tollway, went through a tollbooth in the area where this person was.
It's conceivable that I may be questioned, or suspected because I was in the area.

I'm not going to live my life in fear of using technology but there sure are all kinds of things that even if you are law abiding could conceivably cause you headaches.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm far from hiding in my bunker with a tinfoil hat and a crystal radio myself, and I can see the other side too.
Heck, I was on the other side.
It just seems like there's an awful lot of people these days concerned with what I/We do everyday...and it doesn't give that warm fresh feeling.
 

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Ed said:
In response to the last 2 posts on this thread I can see both points.
On one hand, yes, if I'm law abiding, I have nothing to worry about.
On the other hand, having all kinds of information about you out there could lead to other problems.

Just like the IPASS
If the powers that be wanted to know what area I was in for some particular time frame it could help them, if I was using the tollway system.

Now let's say I know someone that was murdered, and I just happened to be going down the tollway, went through a tollbooth in the area where this person was.
It's conceivable that I may be questioned, or suspected because I was in the area.

I'm not going to live my life in fear of using technology but there sure are all kinds of things that even if you are law abiding could conceivably cause you headaches.
Speaking of IPASS, are they doing what they do on the turnpikes in the other states yet?

For those of you not familiar on the turnpikes (Kansas for example) when you get on, you get a card saying when you got on, and where. When you exit you give it to the booth operator and get charge for how far you went (kind of like riding the Metra, only you pay after). But by the time elapsed on the card, they know how fast you were going and if you get from point A to point B too fast they can give you a ticket.

I have not experienced this, but someone I used to work with claimed it happened to her. When I drove the Kansas t-pike I hammered down through the way, but stopped at an oasis before my exit to get dinner and let my time catch up.
 

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Hi we're from Wal-Mart :) and here to help...... Sound familiar???

I guess if you don't like Wal-Marts views and rules don't shop there. I have not been to one in over three years now. There are plenty of other places to shop and with Bass Pro and Cabelas in the area who needs them? I would rather support them or the local gun shop.
 

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TCWJoe---your friend must have been pulling your leg--they don't do what your friend claims on the turnpikes or tollways...
i'm not saying it isn't a plausible scenario in the distant future, they just aren't doing that now...they still do what they've always been doing---police using radar, lidar, and aircraft to combat speeders---or should i say, make money ;)
 

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megofishing said:
your friend must have been pulling your leg--they don't do what your friend claims on the turnpikes or tollways
Sorry megofishing, but you are wrong. Tickets are issued to drivers that clock out faster than the alloted time. Give the IPASS group a few more years to get the bugs worked out, and they too will use the clock in - clock out method as another revenue generator.
 

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WOW!!! I can hardly believe what I am reading.....

Yeah, "if you're a law abiding citizen, then you should have no trouble with this..."

Great thinking... in fact, why not extend this to...say the 4th amendment, the protection against unreasonable search and seizures. I mean, if you're a law abiding citizen, then why not let the police stop by and seach your house anytime they feel like it? I mean, what have you got to hide???? Sound crazy? Well if it can be done to the 2nd Amendment, why not the 4th??? In simple terms, it's called the slippery slope. In other words, once you allow one infringement on one RIGHT, then other infringements are much easier to institute.

I listened to the democratic debate this evening and both candidates, when questioned about guns, mentioned that they supported "common sense gun laws", ones that did not affect the "hunter" or "target shooter". Funny, I don't recally the 2nd Amendment mentioning either hunting or target shooting... Plain and simple, the 2nd Amendment was written, for the EXACT same reasons as other amendments... To protect US from our GOVERNMENT!

Take the 1st Amendment. Although it extends to all speech, the impetus for this was that in previous governments, speaking out against the government got you a meeting with prison or the exectioner. Seems simple that we have to defend that right, but using the same logic as those wanting "common sense" guns laws, we ought to be able to ban some hate speech right? I mean, why should we allow speech that is nothing but hate, as in the case of the Klan or Neo-Nazis? Wouldn't banning that speech be "reasonable"? Why not, if you don't talk that way, why should it bother you? Hopefully you know inside the answer to this rhetorical question, but I'll risk being overly obvious. The answer is because once you ban even the most despicable hate speech, other types of speech will be banned next... like I said, it's a slippery slope!!!


OK, back on topic. WalMart (founded by George Orwell...er, I mean Sam Walton) and their videotaping of gun purchases. For those of you who think it's a good idea, lets think about this first in the most basic of terms.
No WalMart is not the government, but why do you think they are compiling this information? WHO do you think they intend on providing the information to? Couldn't be the governement could it? Na :-? Just for the record though, who do you think licenses them to sell guns and monitors their selling of guns? I hope no anser was needed...

Anyway, the article said that they would be looking for people trying to purchase guns who have previously had guns purchased by them used in crimes. Now what if someone breaks into your house, steals YOUR gun, then commits a crime? Now when you go to your local WalMart to replace what was stolen from you, it is now YOU that are treated like a criminal. At the very least, they may not sell the gun to you, but more likely, they will probably be forwarding that information along to someone...Hmmmm, but who???? Couldn't be the governement... Naaa!

And to further the point, lets extend this beyone the gun issue... What else will WalMart decide to take records of and store that data? AIDS is still a horrible epidemic in this country. Maybe WalMart could record anyone who purchases AIDS medications. That way anyone who might be wondering if their new partner is healty, could access the data base, discover the disease and their life would be saved!!! Just think of all the ways WalMart could save the world, they could tape all the guys who pass on having their brakes done while in for just an oil change. Then when an accident happens, the "victims" can use that information to sue that irresponsible car owner.... I'm obviously being silly, but the point is that as LAW ABIDING citizens, we have the expectation of privacy for most things and the RIGHT to privacy for others. Funny thing is, that the law very strictly protects us in the example I used above. You cannot share ones medical information without your consent. Not in the constitution, just a law on the books, but now, when a law abiding citizen purchases a gun, there doesn't extend that same right to privacy, yet that is clearly a RIGHT... Where's this "common sense" everyone keeps referring to? :eek:

ps. Ja Knee wrote that he didn't think this would affect any CLF'ers... I disagree. In fact, when we allow the degrading of our rights, it affects ALL of us, even non gun owners.
 

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1KNOT2GO: I don't profess to be an expert on the turnpikes and tollways of this country, but I can't find one instance of getting fined on the 'clock-in, clock-out' method you've described. Please give me a 'for instance' (what tollway/turnpike), so I can apologize :lol:

btw, In Illinois, your speed is clocked as you are physically driving through the tolls (and a picture is taken of your vehicle---it's deleted if you paid a toll and have a valid IPASS)... Illinois state law prohibits the issuance of speeding tickets based on this data.
 

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As far as turnpikes, I used to frequently drive the Indiana and Ohio ones.
NEVER got a ticket due to clock-in clock-out.
I have *heard* that in the past it was done and that it started up again but never in my experience using them, over 20 years worth of several times/year, have I been issued a ticket due to it.
And that's not because I obey the speed limit on them ;)
 

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hey Ed!
i've driven several in my time too---never been fined either...
it's just not being practiced anywhere here in the states as far as i know..
it's always 'a friend of a friend got a ticket' type thing...but no one has the actual turnpike/tollway where it's being done. :roll:
there are 'point to point' camera systems and SPECS in Australia and the UK---they take a picture of your car license when you get on, then again when you get off the highway--if you go under the 'time' you get a ticket in the mail....problem is both systems have had to reimburse MILLIONS of dollars in fines to people for 'bugs' in the system, etc., so I don't even see that kind of a thing happening here anytime soon.
I've done everyone a favor and scoured the internet last nite for hours---there just isn't a 'clock in, clock out' turnpike or tollway in the U.S. at all, period. ;)
 

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Oh Fellas......Let's all stop our bellyaching about our privacy being violated. It is a done deal and it will never return. You are videotaped almost every moment you are outside, almost every moment you are in a public building and almost everywhere else. The government already has the ability to get almost anything they need about you.....did you file your taxes electronically and get a direct deposit ?????? They have you dead to rights. :eek:
I dislike Walmart's merchandising tactics like the rest, but they are not doing anything of substance to hurt anyone more than they have already been hurt.

Look up.....you are probably on a camera right now.

Also....I challenge anyone to show me in the Bill of Rights exactly where it says we have a "right to privacy".
 

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AAAV8OR said:
Also....I challenge anyone to show me in the Bill of Rights exactly where it says we have a "right to privacy".
That would be correct. Only place you really have the right to privacy is in your own home.

Technology has it's good points and bad. I really don't care if I'm being watch or taped in public. I do have a problem with having to give personal information to buy something. Bass Pro Shop, Radio Shack and many others ask for phone numbers at the register. I just politely tell them...... NO !!!! :lol:
 

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...the consitution, nor the bill of rights specifically say 'right to privacy'...as a matter of fact, the word 'privacy' isn't even in the constitution....however, amendments 9 and 10 cover the bases for everything that amendments 1 through 8 don't cover, and have always been interpreted by the supreme court as a 'right to privacy' matter...

not 'bellyaching' as you put it--i was merely pointing out that a couple of people made statements that weren't true regarding getting speeding tickets on turnpikes and tollways.....funny, i'm not even sure what the original argument was about! :lol:
 
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